Clinical Master Herbalist Interview With Steven Horne – The Herb Guy – The Master Herbalist

Clinical Master Herbalist Interview With Steven Horne – The Herb Guy – The Master Herbalist


welcome to intrinsic motivation fromahomies perspective podcastwhere wemeetexpertsfrom all walks of lifeto learntheirintrinsic motivations so that theycan shareitwiththe worldwhat dowehaveinstore today stay tuned tofindout more good morning good evening goodafternoon to everyone out there inpodcast landthis is another episode ofintrinsic motivation froma homeysperspective this isHamzaand I’m Davidand today we have a registeredherbologist who’salso certified in iridologyandhas been in theindustryfor a numberofyears and has the credentialsto back itup as wellsowe arenot meeting withthis gentleman in the back alleyof yourlocal grocerystore to talk aboutherbalhome today we have an expertStephenhorn welcome to thecall Steven hatethetrafficyeah I really appreciate it it’sgood tohave youStephen I was DavidandI were excitedbecause you are aregistered herbalistand I know thatthereis a huge pocket of the populationthatis really gravitating towards herbsand it could be just a result of notbeing able to youknow as a result ofthehealthcarecosts escalatingsuch butI think you arebringing a lotto thetable and thatyou can give a overallbalanced viewpointtothe subject matterso if you could just talk before we getstartedjustkind of gointo how you gotinto becoming aregistered herbalist andinto thisindustryasa whole well Istarted off learningabout ediblemedicinal plantsof my teens and inScouting and learning about doorsurvivaland I had a lotof healthproblemsgrowing up in my early 20s Igot this ideathatmaybethis stuff outin naturemight do thingsthat modernmedicine wasn’tdoing for me so Istarted dabbling in natural healingandstarted to getprovementsmy health I hadn’t gottenwith Orthodox medicineand then Imajored in communications I wound up working helpingof master herbalist puttogether his trainingprogram andlaterwent toas the editor of the corporatepublications for a major urban nutritional supplement companyand thenthey found outI could teach so theystarted havingme teach schools to theirdistributorsso what Iloved them I wentonmy own andI’ve been teaching peopleabout naturalmedicine and writing booksand and just doing this fulltime sincethe 1990 so I’ve been onmy own forquite some time and I’ve professionalmember of the American herbalist guild which was what a registered herbalist is and I alsowonders on theirboard ofdirectorsfor four years and waspresident for four years of theorganizationso that’s alittle bitabout mybackground what do you see Imean1990 a while ago what do you see asfaras the market froman educationalstandpointand an awareness and opennesstopursuing the herbal it has beengrowingvery strongly in fact the urband’Urberville segment of the naturalhealth market you know vitamins minerals natural foodsandeverything is one ofthefastest growing segments in thatmarketand I agree with youtherepartofthat maybebecause withof very highdeductibles on insuranceand the otherthings with the cost ofmedicinepeoplemay belookingfor alternatives butIalsothink there’s just a lotof peoplewho are like mewho are tired of kind ofsymptomatictreatment and trying to findthings that actually help them get wellso they’re lookingfor alternative theherbs inbehind for a long longtime Imean that that’s the really a lot of thedrugs thatpeople take originally camefrom compounds that wereextracted ourplantso it’s not like herbal medicineissomething really weird becausewefind a lot ofyou know bioactivecompoundsin in plantsI’m looking for what I’ve seen in mypersonalexperience isfanaticismso someone that’s interestedin inanything rightkind of like Christmasmorning and it’s kind ofoverindulgencewith herbs if you will and theyyou comeinour house and they have likethreecounters full of herbshow do you gofrombeing from a fanatic ofI just wantto tryeverything to having a morebalancedviewpoint well I think thatthatrequires knowledgeI one ofthethings I’ve had heard people say thisabsolutely ridiculous is it’s notit’snatural it can’t hurtyouwell it’s not exactlytruesince thereare a lot of poisonous plantsand Iremember one timea mom brought in someweight-lossproductthat containedChinese ephedra andguarana which isvery high source ofcaffeine and someother thingsthatshe’d been giving toher eight-year-old sonfor a couple ofyearsbecause she thought hewasoverweight and he was havingheartpalpitationsand I say yeah supplementyou’re givinghim is causing him heartpalpitationsshe says well that can’thappen because it’s justnaturaland Isaid I’m sorryIcan because you’regiving himsomething that’s extremelyyou knowhyper stimulating tothe heartand he’s just kidand so you know peoplehave there’s a poem and Idon’t know theexactwordsbut it basically paraphrasedsaysdrink deeply from the spring ofknowledgebecause shallow draughtsintoxicating the brain and drinking deeply largely Sobers us up again so yeah so you wantit you want to you knowthink about what what you do from apragmaticpoint of view and it’s notthat observable because I knowpeoplewho who are taking 30 and 40 herbal supplements at a timeandwork I don’tthink is agoodidea but they’re notdying andI’ve often told people if youwent tothe pharmacyand picked 30 or 40over-the-counter medications and took themall the same time I don’tthinkyou’d be doingaswellright yeahno Ireally people haveaccessto her pretty safeyeah ifsomeonecomes to see you about aninterest in herbsrightlike you justmeant you had a great example of ifsomeone didthat same thing at apharmacyhow do you woodywhat’s yourfirst steps thatyou takewhen someonecomestosee to identify the firststepsthey shouldtake towards consuming herbswell I try toteach people about thebasic categories verbs and how herbs worknow I mean if it’s someone comingto me as aclient I just you knowhelpfigure outwhat they need for theirparticular situationbut when I’m tryingto train peopleout herbsI actuallystart by getting them acquaintedwiththe basicaction verbs there’s basicallytwelve basic categories of herbs and inother wordstwelve groups ofphytochemical constituents that interactwith the body in kind of major ways andtraditional herbalism is based on the idea that herbs like speed up metabolismor warm the body oras they’re heatingor coolingmeaningthe cooldownmetabolismreduce inflammation heat thatthey dry outtissuesor damp that theymoisten tissues thatare dry that theyrelax constricted tissues or tone upoverly relaxed tissues andthat’s reallythe basis of herbalismit’s trying toit’s not about treatingdiseases andthat’s one ofthe things that peoplegettingtrouble with is they in try toimport the medical model overinherbalismand herbs do not correlatevery well with thediseases they treatthey correlate better with the state the tissues arein and the functionof thedifferent body systemsand so they theyare either strengthening thefunctionsof specific body systems or they’re balancing outtissues that are out ofbalance in the body and when you learnherbalismthat way it is really reallycommon senseand very easyto understanditisn’t just a list of oh here’s abunchof herbs you useto treat a wholebunch of differentdiseases whenI whenI tried that approach initiallyI gotkindofhazard results and then when I started tolearn about what theactions verbsreally were andstarted to learn tothink in terms of the way traditionalherbalism looked at herbs I got verydependable results that’s the biggestproblem is notlearning the paradigmthat goes with herbalismand just tryingto use herbs in a medical modelwhoodoes that makesenseyeah I can give youa verypracticalexampleyearsago Iread back toEden by Jethro Clausen andhe talksabout using an herb calledwhite oak bark for bleeding gums forvaricose veins forhemorrhoids andseveral other thingsand I rememberlooking at thatgoing what like how canone herb treat all those differentthingsand and because you’re thinkingin termsof diseases and whatnotbutwhen you understand that white oak barkis an astringentand then the stringentcontracts and tones loose and spongytissueand dries up excess secretion andthen you understand yourvaricose veinis of course a vein that’s lackingintone bleeding gumsyou know arealsoswollen lacking in tone the hemorrhoid isa varicose veinin the rectum all ofasudden it makes perfect sense you’reapplying it wherever tissues are swollenand lacking in tone you get it yeah soit soundslike you’re saying that peopleshould have paid more attention inbiology classwe actuallyherbalism fitsverywell with basic anatomy andphysiologyrather than the studyofpathologyhmm so it’s more itsoundslike you come fromit and approach ofbeing more so proactiveas of as opposedto others that may go the moretraditionalroute of treating a symptomright like the example you gave may havebeenoh these things are happen to me Ineed to treat them as opposed to beingmore so taking care of their overallhealth yeahwell thefirst thing I learnedare figuredoutthat took mefrom beingkind of ahit-and-missherbalist to getting moreconsistent resultswas when I figuredoutthat symptoms were not diseaseactuallyespecially when you look atacute disease the symptoms of acutedisease like a coldare actually theefforts of the immune systemto kick thevirus andthe irritationfor things areirritating the body out ofthe system soyour runny nose your coughing your diarrhea your vomiting your skin eruptions and you know thatkind ofthingorall the body trying to flushirritants so what do wedo we takemedications to try to suppress the symptomstake a hangoverfor example seewhat fever does if it’s a mildfeverlike 102or something okaywhat that isis the immune system elevates the bodytemperaturebecause itinhibits viralreplicationthat allows the immunesystemtogain a one-up on the microbesand andactually get overthe almostmore quickly if you suppress the feverit allowsthemic the viruses tomultiply and spread farther through the bodybefore the bodybody can build up acounter-attacksousually what we’redoing in intreating illness in Westerncivilization is we’re treating symptomsand we’rethinkingthan treatingsymptoms relieving the symptom is fixingthecause and it isn’t fixing the causeso I started withcoldstarted to workwiththe symptomsI started to find waysto help stimulatethe body’senergyopenup thechannels of elimination so thebody could more easilyflush what wasirritating it and I startedto find outit’sreally easy to get over cold in 24hours especiallyif you’re you knoweatinghealthy and you know orreasonablywellafact I see my kidsstart to comedown with somethingstartgiving them herbs and help help them to coughit outandsneeze itout orwhateverand a lot of timesthey’dbebetter in two hours Wowbecause you’re tryingto work withwhatthe body istrying to doinsteadofagainst so isn’t just a changefromusing like drugs to using herbs it’s achange inthe way you think abouthealthand diseaselet me give youanotherexamplehighcholesterolnow people take drugs tolower theircholesterol right right there there’s atleastsix or sevenmaybe eight differentreasons why yourcholesterol might behigh your cholesterol elevates when you’refighting aninfection because ithelpsto bind the endotoxins frommicrobes your cholesterolelevates whenyou’re exposedto environmentalpollutantsbecause cholesterol bindsenvironmental pollutants and takes them backto the liveryour cholesterolelevates whenyour when yourthyroid islow your cholesterol elevates when yourgallbladder is sluggish becausemost ofthe cholesterolin your body is used tomake bio so so just taking a drug likestatins thatinterferes with your body’sability to manufacture cholesterol doesnot fix any oftheunderlying reasonswhy the cholesterol went up in the firstplaceyou understand and that’s what you’retrying todo in herbal or naturalmedicine is identify thecause deal withthe cause and thenbuy when you fix thecausethe symptom is not necessaryanymoreoh yeahit makes me wonder if thepresident was actually listening to youor ifyou know the president becausefrom I’ve got atongue-in-cheekbut itwasjust reallyinteresting that theyaskedhim oh it’s flu season did you getyour flushotbecause that crap doesn’twork now from you know with all all thelobbyists with pharmaceutical companiesI’m sure it’s just like I have neverhadafive never had a flu shot in my lifeand Iand well IIII don’t like tellpeoplenever to have vaccines becauseI’m not that fanaticalI Idon’t youknow I didn’t vaccinate myown kids butI’ve neverhad a flu shot and I tellpeople foo shots arethe stupidest thingbecause you’re you’retaking somethingthat contains toxic chemicals likemercury that suppress your immune systemand there are several thousand fluvirusesand every year they pick threeor four that they think might be activethat year and they make a vaccine forthem so that’s like playing agame ofchance with your immunesystem rightactually matemaybe even if the flushotactually does generate immunity thenyou’re only immune to what like onepercentmaybeoffthe potential fluviruses that you could come in contactwithyeah that doesn’tseem like verygoododds to meyeah no and I know lotsofpeople who don’t get the flu shotsandthen they never get sick and all thepeople who did get flu shotsdoyeah seewhat I tryto explain topeople aboutvaccines as vaccinesdonot make youimmune they challenge your immune systemto buildup a resistance tothoughwhateveryou’ve been injected with sothe hero isthe immune system but whathappens if peopleare not eatingcorrectlyif they don’t have enoughvitaminDthey don’t have enough of zincthey don’t have enough selenium they don’t have enough vitamin C if they don’t have the nutrientsthat help theirimmune system function properlyokaythenyou’re artificially stressing yourimmune responseswithout having built upa good immune system so I saythe realhero isthe immune system and we oughtto spendless timeworrying aboutmicrobes and worrying about you knowvaccines all this stuff and and worryabout how to build a healthy immunesystem so let me I’m not othersI’m notnot not dispassionate about this right or notat allthat doesn’t come acrossat allbecausebut but it’s because I’vebeenin this long enough and I’ve seenthis enoughand I’ve studied this enoughthat Ijust thinkthere’s a whole hugemisplacedemphasis so it’s not thatmodern medicineall badand there’s noreasonever to go tothe doctor it’sjust in alot of cases we’re justputtingtoo much emphasis on the wrongthings yeah what I thought you’re gonna jump in Davidohyou’re about tosaysomethingcause and where you go aheadyeah itactually had triggered two different questionsfrom Stephen thinkingabouttarget marketsand usually when we talkabout flu vaccinations they think oflittle you know if there’s a shortagethere like it will make sure thechildren and the elderlyhave access toit doyou actually promote to elderlycommunity theseaboutthe importance ofunderstandingherbs and so they’re notas because they have weaker immunesystemsso are you seen as analternativetothat orD partner withthe medical communityto get theballotwell Ihaven’t had much opportunity topartner with the medical community Iwouldlove to but I I would love to beabletoeducate elderly peopleaboutthings they can doto build their immunesystem rather than relying on flu shotsI mean this is one of my goals is totrytofind ways to get my message out topeople and and just wake them up to whatthey needto do to the to this wholeconcept ofwhat natural healingis allabout it’s notjustabout you knowmemorize a memorizing a bunch ofalternative remedies to different diseasesit’s a whole change of paradigma wayof thinking about health anddisease and that’s what reallygot megoingthisis when I realized that youknow our our paradigms were incorrectabout the body now you’re also acertified our biology instructorsocould you tellusalittlebit aboutjust the subject matter of our dalla jiand how you incorporate thatwithclientsthat youwork with yeah wellIread ology is the study of the markingsand patterns inthe iris of the eyeandalsoto a certain degree the pupil tonusthe tone of the pupil and a little bitin the whiteof the eye the sclerathat’s that’s called serology but most of what you see inthe iris is geneticinformation and thethe researchthatwas doneinEurope by medical doctorsbasically demonstrates thatiridologyisa predictor ofrisk areas in your healthandI think there’s a lot of research tobeon iridology is still a very verycontroversial subject butI have foundthis tobe extremely true and it mayhave somethingtodowith epigeneticsthe way that express themselves because justbecauseyou have a marking in your iris doesn’tnecessarily mean you’ll develop thehealth problems associated with italthough most peopledo it’s because youhave a potentiality towards itand ifyou dosomethingto actually strengthenthat part of yourbody you may nevergetthat inother words ifby iridology isone of the most potentially preventative modalitiesI know in terms ofdeterminingwhere your genetic risks areand then whatyoucan do to balancethatout to keep yourself fromgetting sickin thefirstplace because you can seetendencies todiabetesto heart diseaseto toadjustof problems to you know allkinds ofthings as wellas basicpersonalitycharacteristics in the irisdie that then you canhelp use thatinformation tokind of guide peopletowards a healthier lifestylethis canhelp be more balanced for themnowif he’s been outfor sometimeyouknowwhy this still inna controversialum well becauseaddition originally dr.Bernard Jensen wasachiropractor whoreally pushed iridologyandin theUnited Statesfor a long time and oneofthe things that he taught wasthat theiris actually reflected the actual tissuestate in the body in other wordsthe iris was wasactually telling youwherethings were andand would changeovertime and so most of theresearchthatwas done in United States was basedon hypothesis thatyoucould detectdiseasesfrom the iris and so most ofthestudies done obviouslycame upnegativebecause honestly you can’tpredict that from the irisI I do knowofto a coupleof studies thatwere donealongthe lines of what I’m talkingaboutthat actually turned out reallypositive the founders of theinternational iterCollege practitionersAssociationthat I belong to did a studywithhospital where theythey tookpeople who were alreadysickand they weren’t given you know whatillnesses they had for their peoplewhowere already sickand they made surethattheyhadgood eye pictures mypicturesthat were really clear and easyto read and then theytold you know whatkindsof health problems they were proneto and there was a very high degreeofcorrelation between my health problemsactually had and what health problemsthey were prone toand there was a studydonein Russia with like 3,000 factoryworkers where they tookand looked atfactorsabout your the strength of yourConstitution how resilientyou are todisease and they rated people in a category ofonetofive one being themostresilient five beingthe leastresilientokay and then they trackedthem fortwo years and the peoplewhohad the highest resiliency had almost no sick daysyou know whateverpeople hadthe lowest resiliency had the most sick daysand it wasa perfectcorrelationright across the board betweenhow oftenthepeople got sick so the it’s apredictor of of you know kind of whatyour genetic inheritance is and and whatnature gave you to work with is what Iliketo say which iswhy I think it’sreallyreally usefulI’ve had people argue with me well thenwhatgood is it you knowlike it does itdoesn’t tell you what diseases you arewell I Ithink it’s kind of nice to knowthatyou have tendencies towards like myeyepattern shows Ihave atendencytowards blood sugar problemsand so youknow I I wastold that by a neurologistwhenI was way backin like my early 30sand so I decided toreally startavoidingsugar I tell you if when I eatsugarIgoing downhill really fastI’mvery sensitive tothe stuff so it’sreallya good thing thatsomeone told meI had that tendencyso I could startadopting a diet lifestyle stayed awayfromit right orthat that’s that’sworse you know somepeoplehave a reallyreally strongConstitution and they cangetawaywith you knowa little bit drinking and smoking andwhateverandthey still live to a ripeold agethere’s others of us whoinherited a less resilientConstitutionwe need to take takebetter care ofourselvesyou said thatokay youmentioned the sugar and it doesn’t dowell with youwhen a person you know iftheywere toget like an ecology examand you make you know suggestions orwhatever and the person makes changes in their lifestyle anddiet and whatnot andthey start toget better is thatreflective back in their iris like if you looked youknow600 it doesn’tthat’sthe point is itdoesn’t changewhat’s intheir irisokaythe iris is genetic they basically they now have a wholething called irisbiometricsand the and the iris is abetter identification thanfingerprintbecause there’s more patterns to look atin the iris and those patternsdonotchange overa person’s lifetime thereare some thingsthat do change in theiris there’sum there’s pigmentationsthat can appear or disappearthere issomething called a lipid ring whichis awhite ring at theperiphery of the iristhat you don’t see in young peopleandit’s it becomes increasingly there aspeople get older and it’s actually asign of disturbed glucose and fat metabolismthat tends towards hardeningthe arteries and in in it likes a very common inpeople who are 60-70 and youknow upin 280 but if it shows this upin someone who’s 30 or 40there was astudy doneand that that sign alone wasaneight times risk factorforheartdiseasedeveloping heart disease inearly age sothatwhile there are somethings areacquired and some things likepeople tonus that do reflect changes most of what you’reseeing is is geneticit’s it but but geneticsone of thethings that we’ve learnedin recentyears is you’re not doomedby yourgenetics because the expression of your genes is controlled bysomething called epigenomeand the epigenome up regulates and downregulates theexpression ofvariousgenesso for example if you take cancerall right the your cells in in the earlystage whenyou’re in your mom’s wombafter the egg and sperm game togetherand the cells started growing grew veryrapidlyand they grew with a ferment ofmetabolismwhich is what cancer cells doand then at a certainpointthereareepisodes that turn on shut all thoseshut all that down and changethe cellsfromanaerobic metabolism to anaerobicmetabolismwell in cancer thoseepigenetic markers all get turned off and the cells revert back tothat moreprimitivemetabolism but it’s theepigeneticsthat are regulating that solike forexample you might have atendency to gluten intolerance butusually somethingtriggers it somestress onthe body triggers it thatcauses it to manifest the same istruefor mental illnesspeoplemighthave afamilyhistoryyou know of tendency tomental illnessin a family but itusuallywon’t trigger untilthere’s anextremelytraumatic event and what’shappening is there’sathere epigeneticmarkers thataregetting altered due totheenvironmentalinfluences and you canyoucan turn those up you can upregulate or downrec you regulate thosegenetic influenceswith nutrition andand the way you liveandyour mentalattitudes and so epigeneticinformationreally helps explain I think what’s going on with iridologywhy why you canlook in the eye and see a tendencytowardssomething but if a person adoptsa healthy lifestyle that that all can belike suppressedif they don’t if they’relikelyto get all those health problemstheir eyes show they’re prone toyeahisn’tthat fascinatingI mean I finditreallyinteresting to lookin people’seyesoh yeah I agreeI you know one setI think wasprobably RigaudI got a colonicand the guythat gaveitto meyou know who ofcourse we weretalkingabout I askedhim how hegotintoallthis and he said well comingout of the VietnamWar he had a lot ofissues problems that he wasn’tgettinganywherewith doctors and so you juststarted kindof doing hisown studyingand a lotof it had to do with theeyeIwasamazed I was like wow he’slikeyeahI got a lotof information just studyingthe iris and theeyeand all that andhebasically healed himself ofall thestuff he hadhe I can’tthrough and I’llkind ofthe stuff issues and it was ayouknow cleaning uphis diet andjust alot ofstuff thathe did it all himselfso I canlook I can look in your eyesand I can tell youtons about yourpersonalitytoo because yourConstitution is your geneticConstitution is both a tendency towardscertain personality traits as wellashealth history so basically Ican I canlook in people’s eyes andI can tellwhether they tend to be a visual learner an auditory learneror a kinestheticlearnerI can tell whether they tend tobeintroverted or extroverted I can tellwhether they tend to be rightorleftbrain dominantI can tell things likethat they arehyper achiever andtheytend to like work too hardand stressthemselves out or they tendto be toocaring about other peopleand basicallyyouknow are overly compassionate andfeel like they have torescue all thesetrait things are easilyidentified inthe iris and I do thiswith peopletheycome intooffice and I sit there andI’ll start tellingthem you’re peoplewithyour eye pattern tend to be likethis this this thisand just lookat melike what like I just nailed them yeahand and it’s one way I haveofhelpingbuild a bridgethat people recognizethat I do know what I’m talking aboutyou knowthebecause because they’regoinglike wow andI’ve looked at eyepictures of peoplethat I’ve never metyou knowand someone’s brought them tome and I’ll sit thereand say well thispersonis like this and this and they gowow how do you knowthat you don’t evenknow them Iknow them they’re likewhat sort oflife will get on who sothat’s been usefultoo becausewhat youdois you get if you’redealing with avisual learner you want to give them something toread if you’re doing withan auditorylearner you can talk to themyou’redealingwith someone ketaesthetic give them somethingto do youyou anda lotof the kids who get introuble in schoolbeinglabeled ashyperactivearechemists attic learnerswho tend tobe hyper achievers and sothey have a hardtimesitting stillbecause they wantto be movingall thetime yeah and so they get so you getdifferent personality characteristicsand thensociety tries to take peoplewiththese different you knowpersonality characteristics andstrengths and weaknessesand shove themall into one mold but it doesn’t workyeah Wow huh so are you are there anyconditions or thingsthatpeople havecometo seeyou and you yousaid wellnot anythingthat you don’t workon oranythingit’s a balloon well there arethings there are things that I will notif there arethings I prefer someone isgettingmetalic medical attention forwhilewe work on the underlying causelike youknow I don’tI don’t feelcomfortablesomeone coming andsayingyou know here treat my canceryou knowwhen I go likeII you knowI can giveyou information aboutthis and you haveto make your choicesyou know what youthink is going to workbest for youstuff likethat I getreally hesitantabout a lot because ofthe legalimplications of itand like you’re happyI had someone call me and they say heyyou know I’mdriving bleeding from therectumiceit would sure wish I do Isaid goto the hospital because becausethat’sthe case where you mightbehemorrhaging internally and you know youcould be deadin a couplehours rightyeah so and they say well you know whatIsaidI said you know I found out theyhad you knowthey had someastringent Isaid takethat astringent on your waythat it’scuteyou get it in other wordsthere aretimes when medicalintervention is isextremely warrantedtostabilize the situationwell Ipersonallydon’t like thewaycancer istreated in our societyI think it’s verycounterproductive I think there’s there area lotof thingsthat we could do tothemto to have more effective cancertreatmentsbut nonetheless this is Idon’twant someone you know making meresponsible forthe decisions about howthey’re goingto go with their cancerbut part of thatlet me explainis Ialso understand a lotabout thecorrelations betweena person’spersonality andtheir emotional problemstheir mental emotional problemsand theillnesses they’re prone to well and so so cancer peoplepeople get cancer justsociallyno tend to have several commonthings thatwork in them on an emotionallevel for exampleone they tend to bemartyring themselvesthey’re taking careof everybodyelseand they’re neglectingthemselves so one of the things I alwaystell people with cancer isthat theyneedto take time to do pleasurablethings for themselvesto relieve stressbecause a pleasurableexperiencedoesmoregoodfor your body anda stressfulexperience does harmso you shoulddeliberately seek out thingslikegettingamassage soaking in a bath withepsom salts or listeningto somebeautiful me that engages senses in apleasureoh boy another family also yeahpampering yourselfanother one and andI’ll tell you I’ve donethisnumeroustimes andyou know what the firstthingthatjust about every person with cancertells meI say make a listof ten thingsthatyou find pleasurable should whatthey say like whatlike what yeah like and I givethemacoupleexamplestheygo oh I saidnowyou have to do oneofthose everydayand thenext thing isthey say wellI don’t havetime oh I saidI’ve saidone way well whydon’tyoutimewill have a 12 year oldand 14 yearold I’ve got to do theirlaundryandI’ve got ablah blah blahandthey needallthis stuffI said you know Ithink atwelvehundred fourteenyear old are oldenough to do their own laundry why don’tyou teach themdotheir own laundry andtell them thatmomneeds totake a breakfor herself orthey might not have a mominsix months and then they’ll havetodo their own laundry anywayright andwhy I find it verydifficult toconvincepeoplewith cancer to take time forthemselvesI doohand andanother thing that I that Iwork onisthat usually is the fact thatthey’re takingcare of others andnottakecare of themselvesthey resenttheir they’ve got a lot of resentmentandthey start forgiving peoplethe resentmentis eatingthem alive wellI justthink yeah so so you and then theotherthing isthey have a hardtimestanding up for themselvesbecausebecause I’ve had lots ofpeople withcancer say well I don’twant to go themedical roadbut my husband doesn’t wantme to go with natural where he was againso I I’mgoing to do this toplease himyeahI’m sittingand going it’snot hislife on the line becauseyou know whatI’m sayingyou know but that’s part ofthething islearningto stand up forthemselves andsay what I want what Ifeel isbest forme that I spoketo acancer group here inst. George becauseoneof the thepeople who was inthegroupwas my client and I went and Italked tohimabout this and Isaid Istarted describingthe typical cancerpersonality said now if any ofyou feelthis doesn’t apply supply for you I nevermake blanket statements there’salways exceptionsrule so but all ofthem were staring atmelike I just shotthem betweenthe eyes is anybody herewho doesn’tfeel like this applies tothem nobodyraised their hand like 20womenokay yeah because that’s becausethereare patterns to the waypeople arein their personality andwhatever thelead to different habits of diet lifestylethat wind up creatingillnesses for themair that make senseour May photosnot just it’sjust notnotjustwhat they eat or whateverbutwhy are they doingthat to themselvesyeah seeya what thewhere I thinkthatwarm well justwere merely going back tothe irisand I whenyou do it atreatmentlike that howlong is thatokaywhen I do aprogram for people Iactually if I can see them in personIdofour thingsI I for fivethingsI look at their iristo get an idea oftheir constitutionI I check theirtongueand their pulse and do appliedkinesiology or muscle testing to get an idea ofwhat’s going on right now and Ilook at their case historyand from allthat I tryto figure out where what arethe causeswhat organ systems aren’tworkingproperlywhat body systems areout ofbalance andwhat kind of things are out of balancein their dietand lifestyle andeverything and I makeyou knowrecommendations based on thatandtypically I expect them to startfeelingbetter in somewherebetweenseven andten days Wowand if theydon’t then I think I’ve donesomethingwrong andthen you guys makehimgentleand then I make adjustmentsuntil I start getting resultsand oneofthe things I dowithmy personalconsultsthat I think iskind ofinterestingis I charge fora consultandafollow up soI so I makesure thatwhateverI putthem on is workingforthemlike two weeks later if it’s not Igive them another free follow-upandanother threefollow-up and anotherthreefault freethought follow-up untilI get itrightor in otherwords it’sone flat feeuntilI get it rightyeah generallyusuallybetween one and three timesthey’ll tellme that there’s they’redefinitely seeing improvement and things are working well and because I figure that’swhat I’m gettingpaid for is toget them on the righttrackyeah that and Ithink if if if allhealers only got paid when they gotresults like a lot ofmess and would godown the drain really fastoh yeahIwill takethere thank youso let me ask youum being ityou knowaligned with the herbs and that kind ofinformationare you personally are you avegetarian ora vegan or do you seewhateveryou want no actually um I don’tthink vegan diets are healthyokay I’vemet healthy vegetariansyou know peoplewho eat maybe some dairy and eggs or stufflikethat but I have never seen avegan that I would consider healthyokayit’s almost impossible toget certainnutrients from solely a plant diet and what really led mein thing is when Iread though theinformation about WestonPriceandwhat he did in the 1930s goingaround the worldand studying indigenouspopulations of people who were reallyreally healthy and had reallygood bonesandreally good teeth and etc and hefoundthat all these help the indigenouspopulations that rarelygot sick and hadalmost no crime and were sofor thatthough typicallysomewhere aroundone-third of their dietcame from animalproteins and the healthiest people hadrobbed raw dairy products from what oneofoneof the couple ofthe followingeither rod raw dairy productsfromgrass-fed animalsseafoodsor organs organ meats from land animalsokayand they usually a high percentageof their diet was notfat’s and he tested their diets andtheyhad10 times more fat soluble vitaminsfour times morewater-solublevitaminsfour times more macro minerals like calcium magnesiumthan the averageperson he tested in Western civilizationin the 1930scan youimagine how muchworse itis now yeah Wowokay so what Itell people is don’t eat highly processed and refined foods you know eattry to find you knowgrass-fed meat anddairy productstry to find thehealthiest food you can findthat’snatural that’s not refinedand processedthe the simplest things peoplecould doto dramatically improve their health diet wise or toeliminate white you knowall refined sugarsall refined floursyou know and processed grains and actually kindofreducethe intakeofgrain in general and and then also to getrid of the processed vegetable oilsno no you knowpartially hydrogenatedoils or refined vegetable oilsstick toto butter and coconut oil and olive oilandyou know fish and other naturalsources you know avocados nothing seedsdon’tworry about eggs don’t you knowdon’tworry about the fat issue becausealmost all really healthy people in theworld ate a high percentage of theirdiet and fat hello therebut it wasnaturalfat it wasn’t like refinedvegetable oils margarine and shorteningYeah right so I just try to dig into forfruitsand vegetables and and you knownatural meats that’s what I tellpeopleto do is naturallist you possible can’tnotorganicto imagine as long withtheorganicyou knowif you canafford it Imeanjust if you can’t afford it eat thebest food you can afford rightorthereyeahwell sayslet meask youanother question have youever worked with anyone on a herb levelas faras someof the womenI treatinaddiction yeah I’veworked withaddictionsIthere are things you can dowith various addictionsyou know withnutritionor herbs but I tendto do moreof kindof the emotional healing thingwithpeople who have addictionsoh and Ihave aI have a belief about addictionin ingeneraladdiction is notthepursuitof pleasure it’s trying to avoidpainpaying there I completely agree soso what you needto do is help theperson who’s addictedto deal with theirpainall rightyeahbecause goalas they’re runningthey’re trying torun away from theirpain and what what propelled meintoemotional healing was when I figured out you can’t run away from yourpain youhaveto face it and workthrough itandthen then you’ll get overitif you run away fromit it will it willhaunt you for the rest of yourlife yeahthe best thing is someone who’s you knowlike you know lost a lovedone if youcan do is grievecry scream whatever andaccept the factthat you’ve got thispain andbe ok with itand you’ll getoverit because your body has mechanismsfor discharging the stress but wetendtothink thatyou know doing that ohthat’sso inappropriateyouknow I can’tcry Ican’t scream I can’t shout I can’tgo throw rocksat something right that’ssocially inappropriateand yet thosearethe very kinds of things thathelppeople healbecausetheyget in touchwiththeiremotions and they workthroughthemandI know that’s contraryto all what a lot ofpeople say but it’sit’s theI find that mostpeople are soout of touchwith theirfeelings thatthey don’t even know how they feel yeah are youback onmmyou ask them how theyfeelwhen theytellyouwhat theythinkyeah okay and and the way you know thatthey’re tellingwhat they think insteadof feelingis because a feeling is abodily sensation yeah so when they tellme youknow well I’m feeling you knowlike I’ve beenreally cheated andbetrayed and that’s blah blah blahwellwhere doyou feel that you know whatwhere in your bodydo you feel thatoh Idon’t know what you’re talking aboutifyou can’t identify where it is in yourbodythat you’re feeling it it’snot afeelingit’sa thought yeah let meknowso and and and and what I learned isthat feelings see there’stwo basickinds offeelings there’s the bodilysensationsand then there’s theemotional feelings well if you thinkabout bodily sensations like hungerthirst fatigueetc what’s the cure forthem they’re telling you I’m hungryIneed water I needsleep right yeah butbodily sensationstell you that there’ssomething wrong andthat you needto dosomething aboutit right then what doesyour angeryour fear your said whateverthey’re telling you that there’ssomethingwrong with the way you’rerelating to the world and youneedto dosomething about ityeah motion about okayand youunderstandit’s in that same thing youcan’t say well I’m hungryand it’s hisfaultright yeahwell I’m theone whoneeds toeatI’m the one who needstotake care of myselfwell it’s the samething with your emotions most peoplemake themistake of eithersuppressingtheir emotions in other words denying that they feelsomething or blaming iton circumstances and other peopleyouhaveto learn to understand what yourfeelings are telling you aboutthe wayyou’redealing withthe worldand whenyouchange how you deal with the worldyou’ll come back to peace yeah changeyour relationships yesohyeahwe’rewatchingit because it makes methink ofwhen people have like a major healthcrisisand then like they had a brushwith deathand thenthey didn’t die now they havethe wholenew lease on life and it seems like onlyat thatpointare they open to changingoraddressing any typeof emotionalhealing yeah that’s often the case infactI I personallybelieve thata lotof the traumatic things in our lifeandincluding illnesses are wake-up callswe’re tryingto say hey you know yoursoul is moving in the wrong directionyou need to think aboutwhere you’regoing I often tellpeoplewho have beentold bythe doctor thatthey have sixmonths or a year to live or whatever Isay okay let’ssupposeGodgrabbedmagically grants you you know10moreyearswhat are you going to dodifferently withthat 10 years than whatyou’ve beendoingfor thelast10 yearswhy should he heal you if you’re justgoingto keepdoingthe same thingsyou’vebeen doing what are yougoingtochange how are you goingto be differentthe interesting question right because that’sthe questionI’m trying toget athow are youoff-track in your life whatdo you need to change about the way you’re going I got this so you readitbutIcan’t remember the name of theauthor read this in book Giadawho is amedicaldoctorhe had a colleague who’dbecome a doctor because his family hadpressured andyet he hated beingadoctor he got cancerand he he knew thatthe survival typical survival rate wassomeone withthe type ofcancer wassomething likesix monthssoI decidedhe was goingtospend last six monthsdoing what he alwayswanted to do whichwas play the violin instead of being adoctor so he quit beinga doctorandstarted playing the violinand fiveyearslater hewas stillplaying theviolinmmmokay and Ithink that’s whatis life isreally telling you when youhave thesecatastrophic illnessesthere’s something in you that thatyou’re Edward Bach who developed theBach Flower Remediesfelt that diseasearosebecause we have a higher selfthat’s that’s in tune withGod and ourlifepurpose but becauseof our fearsandour socialthing and all thatstuffwe’re afraid ofmanifesting our lifepurpose so we get out of harmonywithourselves internallyand that leads tointernal conflict which leads to diseaseI’m so the whole ideaof the Bach FlowerRemedies was to clear thoseinternalconflicts so that we could then manifest what our higher self what our soul wants to manifest in thisworld now here I’mjust really kindofrevealing you knowwhere I reallycome from and the way Ithinkaboutthingsright because becauseI really find that to be truewith whenpeople thatI work withhave aquestionin thatregard since you deal withtheeye and I’m not sure David asked thisquestion but I know it’s based offofyou the genes and such but in 1990 like in the 90swe didn’t have that muchaccessto this blue lightthat we’re soaddictedto from our laptops iPads andcell phonesand so in an ornamentamount of timethat’s spent in front ofthese whatkind of impact is itimmediate or something that you seeforeshadowing forthe future as far aseye healthand all these electronics ahthat’s a really goodquestionsince Iwindup spending way too muchtime infrontof a computerno you know you knowI’m rightand I teach rightyeah I I thinkthat I learned aboutwhole idea of electromagnetic pollutionin the 80s and I I became awarethat youknow all these thingswere having aninfluenceon us like I don’t like tocarrymycell phone round with melikeespecially in my pocket um and I don’tlike to talk directlyon it if I canhelp but youknow I’drather use aheadsetI tryto men I minimize myexposure tosome of these things becauseI really thinkit’s unhealthyand I justgotmarried this June and I’ve beentrying to to get like my stepsons to limit their time on this stuffbecause Ijust I don’t thinkit’s healthy andIIIknow with myownchildrenwhen they were youngI came to theconclusionthat TV was a plug-in drugand itwasn’t good foryoung childrensowhen my children were littlelike underthe age offive we didn’t even have aTVI wanted them to crawl around and pullpots and pans out of thecountry to comeand playyouknow what I’m saying Ithinkitreally helped to develop theirIQand I think kids getting stuck withatablet or in front of a TV as anelectronic babysitter is actually reallybad for kids and I I don’t know wherethis istaking us because Ii am i heardpsychologists say things like but a lotofyoung people cannot identify theemotion infacial expressions anymoreall right it’s it’s it’s disconnectingpeople from real life andI do know thatthe the blue the blue lightfrom thosescreensalso inhibits you from going tosleep because because it affects your because allkinds of light affects yourpineal glandyou know you know thefluorescent lights and all that stuffhas an effect on your pineal gland itwas demonstratedby John oddso anywayyeah I I tried at leastdo things tocounteract it you knowsure and I hadcomebackin your you were talking toDavid about justdifferent foods andlifestylechanges and Idon’t know ifyou’veheard but in recentnews Franceshalted in a production of glyphosatewhich is one ofthe main ingredients ofGMOs oh yeah the oh really that’sinterestingyeah it’s really out because you knowbecause they the the whole issue of GMOsis a is a big oneII’ve you know allofthe studies thathave been done on GMOswhere they startto comeup with thetheproblems GMOs are causing get halted well so I think I thinkgenetically modifiedcorn and these other things have donewreakhavoc with people’sdigestivesystemstwo reasons one is becausethethe wholepoint of the majority of GMOsis to allow you toput moreweedkilleron there and theglycol phosphatesandthey and those glycol phosphateskillfriendly bacteriathey kill friendlybacteria in thesoil and they killfriendly bacteria in your gut and the other major GMO produces an insecticidein the plant itself that also kills gutbacteriaand the whole microbiomein ourgut is a huge part ofour immune systemand it’s under assaultin our societyand one of the reasons why people’simmunesystems are so weakwithantibiotics and all the disinfectantseverybody uses andall the you knowchemicals in the food they eat they justdon’t have it and health healthyintestinal flora so they have a very weak immune system and would you still haveaposition as with autismand inmostof whatever the gluten glutenaffliction thatthat’s happening inthepol yeah the gluten thing isa byproductthis because when youget the imbalancein the gut microflora one of the things they’ll do is cause leaky gutand in thethe leaky gut causes you to absorbthings like glutenthat you wouldn’tnormally absorb or caseinfrom dairyproductsand whatnotand then yourimmune system can start reactingviolently to that and resulting inautoimmunedisorders and a lot of otherthingsso herbalists have known for along timethat a lot ofourhealthproblems traced backto the GI tract andgetting the health ofthe GI tract inordergetting help theintestinalfunctionis a key to having overallhealthI know that’s actually how Icured my chronic sinus problems that I had growing up after rounds and roundsright about it neverdidn’t be good andthen is when I finally startedworkingon my gut and do like some cleaning out myintestinesagainmy Justin work better and eatinghealthierallof it cleared up youknowand Ithink a lot ofthat had to do withI didn’t realize it but I wasalsobalancing out my microbiomein my gutone last questionis were close to thetopof the hourI just wanted to knowabout how do you get aroundI’m thinkingabout weight loss products and such theyalways have tosay it’s not FDAapprovedthathasn’tbeen gone throughifanyrigorous testing andsuch so youalwayshaveto put an asterisk by any typeofailment thatget fixed andwhat have youdo you see that onyour end dealing witha lotof herbswhere if you don’t ifyou’renot credentialed with the themainstreamstamp of approvalyou won’tget you won’t be seen anythinglike wellthe whole herb industry is hampered by thefact that you can’t make any realclaims about whatherbs do directly welland actuallyfor years a largepart ofmy incomewas producing third-partyeducational materials fora major herbcompany and Ijust got toldyou know bytheir legaldepartment looks just likeabout four or five monthsago that theFDA was coming downon themand sayingyou haveto shutdown people who arewritingabout your products third partyor we’re gonna sue you and which meanstheywould have to turn around sue meandand I sobecause I wanted a goodrelationship with them I had toclose itdownyou you you can teach people aboutherbs and supplements generically becauseit’s freedomof speech butwhenyou step overinto talking aboutaspecific product and you’re talkingabouthow thatcanhelp you know peopleto get well from various illnessestheFDA considers that crossing line and so you really it reallymakes it hardtoshare what weknow you understand rightright and so I have to keep what I doeducation why is very separate fromwhat I do collectwiseand I have to be very careful aboutwhatI say about products when I’mrecommending them clientstoo you know Ihave to speakmostly instructure-function terms andenergeticterms and and not directlyaddresstheideaofworking on illness theyhaveitsit it hampers this interest if wedidn’texist under that legal climate we wouldgrow by leaps and boundswell if we wereable if we were ableto make you knowlegitimate claims based on good you know research not wild stuff but I meanevenjust historical datayouknow and theexisting literatureon a lot ofherbs wewould belightyears aheadof wherewearenowyeah absolutelyI feel that we only youthink on the David I’ll say no that’s a big money tree outthere so you know whyanyway no though atone point fivetrillion dollar junk food industryandthe onepointfive drilltrillion-dollardrug industrykind of feedoff ofoneanotherJohnnyMarris I want back oryeah on thatnoteit feels like we’veonlyscratched the surface with justyour depth of informationcould you givesome website and yourFacebook andPrudential so people can learn moreinformationabout – well I’min theprocesswhen Salehdating all mywebsites into one and so the best websiteto go to is stevenhorn calm mynameSTV and hor any you canactually ifyou googlemy name my websitescome uplike threeorfourof thefight you knowfightforsecure referencesthis isreally easyto find me with my nameisSteveWarren and I’m I’mthe herb guy onFacebookso youcan look me up that waytoo longor looking up a Stevenphone onFacebookokay it’s been a pleasure andyou guys have just beenin tune toanother great podcast with us horn this has the intrinsicmotivationfrom a homies perspective I am Hamza andI amDavidand thanks againfor all ofyour great information we’d love to haveyou infuture episodesthanks so muchSteveyeah thank youforhaving me Ireally enjoy talking withyou well thankyouyes great good conversation thankyou thanksagain for checking outanother episode of intrinsic motivationfroma homeless perspective podcastplease checkus out on our website atintrinsic motivationdot life where youcanclick on the speak pipe button andleave any suggestionsfor a futurepodcast that you’d likeus tocover alsocheck us out on our socialmediasiteswe have a YouTube channelFacebook pageiTunes podcastin addition to stitcherand Google Play all under intrinsic motivation fromahomeys perspectivecheck you outnext time have a great dayyou

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