God vs Gays: Gay Conversion Therapy (Part 2/3)

God vs Gays: Gay Conversion Therapy (Part 2/3)

Do you think that you can live as a devout Christian/Catholic and be gay? No. You can’t be, it’s incompatible. You cannot be Christian and gay You can’t You can be a homosexual and Christian but you can’t be gay and Christian. There is no question anymore, of course you can be gay and you can be a Christian. Of course and if anybody really thinks through what their theology is about their faith. That answer is easy to come to I’m John Smid, and I worked for 22 years on staff at Love In Action International I was the executive director from 1990 through 2008 Love In Action was a ministry that was motivated to help people leave behind their homosexual behavior. We attempted all through the years to help people find that freedom in their life. Today, I am very offended at the concept of “change therapies” for homosexuality because the message that someone who is gay has something intrinsically wrong with them is a shame-producing negative message that hits at the core of a human life And I’m offended that that message is still in any way communicated. I don’t feel guilt for having been a part of reparative therapy and the reason for that is not because I don’t feel bad about the message that we put out, but we were on a journey and you have to put it in the cultural context at the time. There was a huge cultural war between the church and the LGBT community and we were caught in that just like everybody else, so being involved in the church community the way that is was we thought that this was the right thing to do. We were wrong. I am a religious man. I’m a Christian man and so that’ll certainly inform some of my lifestyle choices. and values. I don’t knwo if all of the men who come to us are religious. Then at the sound of the drum beat take one step to your left Look at the outside of this man. Look at his physical appearance. Look into this man’s heart. Look into his soul. Now look more deeply. -I know that I didn’t choose to have the feelings that I had but i think that how I react to that or how I respond to that is still… you know, that’s where I can make a choice about that and so, sexual acting out and things like that wasn’t really compatible with my values. It kind of came to the point where I just wanted to see what other alternatives there were. I started to come back into my Catholic faith as well, about that time. After coming into this and finding a lot of healing and I think this weekend even though it’s not a religious weekend. There’s a real emphasis on surrendering to a higher power, that starting leading me, in my life, back to to the church, back to what I found, where I found the most peace. So groups like Journey Into Manhood or Love in Action or any kind of group that tries to change the sexual orientation or gender identity of people from what’s natural for them. I find to be very damaging. Do you now believe that it’s possible to change your sexual orientation? No, I don’t There’s a lot of history of people coming out after they’ve, you know created these organizations these ex-gay organizations or reparative therapy movements, to say that, in fact, it wasn’t helpful. Exodus International was the largest ex-gay organization for over 30 years and their leader of over 10 years finally at the end of it came out to say that 99 plus percent of people that he knew, including himself never actually changed their internal-felt sense of their attractions towards other people. I know that there are people who have taken their life because they felt so ashamed of who they are felt like God couldn’t love them as they are and that’s something that will haunt me until the day I die. It wasn’t until I left the ex-gay movement that I actually heard the damage and I am grieved that I didn’t hear it before. The collateral damage I think is something we’ve not been willing to listen to We’re here today to talk about conversion therapy. There’s a lot of different names for this topic There’s a lot of different perspectives on this topic. -It is really hard for me to be in the same room sometimes with people who led the programs currently or in the past because i know that my friends lost their lives because of the the pain that they endured at the hands of these men. I am a recent graduate of MIT Just did two graduate degrees in nuclear engineering and technology policy. I now work a few different think-tanks there in Washington, DC Third Way and the Bipartisan Policy Center, working on educating Congress on advanced nuclear reactor physics which is pretty much awesome. It’s a great job. I also serve as the co-chair for the Born Perfect campaign to end conversion therapy so this is my, this is my outlet to make the world a little bit better place in the non-nuclear realm, I guess is the best way of putting it. -I’m gonna give you some facts, that’s what I do. I’m a lawyer, I work in facts. -What we are doing is we are going around the country trying to pass laws that protect kids under 18 from having conversion therapy practiced on them by licensed mental health professionals. -Good afternoon I’m here to request your help in ending conversion therapy. -So we recently went to Geneva, Switzerland to talk to the United Nations Committee Against Torture about the practice of conversion therapy in the United States and Sam Brinton one of our incredible survivors we work with a lot, testified before that committee. Now these are folks who have spent their lives talking about torture and by the end of his testimony there were very few dry eyes in that house. -Then the physical abuse began he tied down my hands and placed ice on them while showing me erotic pictures of men. He wrapped my hands in hot coils stuck needles in my fingers and shocked me with electricity. Through all of this I remained gay but became suicidal. I found that forgiveness for me is something really really important it’s a way for me to get past all that pain. I shed that love back toward those Nick Calosi’s and Allen Chamber’s, hoping that they were doing it out of love. And I just need to make my message and my voice loud enough to help them understand that it is not helping. -I learned to lie and through that survived but many aren’t so lucky.

100 Replies to “God vs Gays: Gay Conversion Therapy (Part 2/3)”

  1. Why would God give you a sexuality you cannot change? But then expect you to change it? Your logic is flawed and actually makes absolutely no sense.

  2. 5:15 I actually saw that guy on the news that he had given a speech on conversion therapy near me.

    It's good that many of the gay conversion "therapy" people have seen the error of their ways, but it was only due to the overwhelming religious indoctrination forced on people from childhood that it took this long to get through to people. That it didn't work, and never worked , yet they did it anyway, causing so much harm.

    I just hope I can live to see this sick chapter of abuse of our fellow humans put behind us for good.

  3. You're repeating a narrative that just isn't true. Yes, there was damage but almost all gay people want to change. Thousands of people have changed their orientation. Once you use personal examples of this experience you distort the message. The truly ex-gay people are grateful someone cared enough to help them out of their unhappy gay lifestyle. Thousands. Heterosexuality gives people the chance of creating life.

  4. Hoping the camp and person who tortured that guy got locked up. What happened is basically the definition of torture. Tying people up, shocking and freezing them. Jesus.

  5. “You can’t be gay and Christian but you can be homosexual and Christian” THATS LITERALLY THE SAME EXACT THING what an idiot ????

  6. “You can’t be gay and Christian but you can be a homosexual and Christian”

    What the actual fuck. Are u high

  7. Just be gay , who cares . if your Christian God will still love you . the gay hate thing will always baffle me

  8. As a parent "What did I do wrong?" How narcissist..? Your childs achievements and shortcomings are not about you!!

  9. ??

    You can be a homosexual and Christian but you can't be gay and a Christian?

    Can someone explain?

  10. Everyone is at least somewhat respectful of everyone else's decisions and way of live exept for that dude in the very beginning. He's the exact example of what is the problem. It makes me mad

  11. Homosexuality and gay is the same thing Hello!! You can't call yourself a Christian and engage in those activities as it's Abomination to God. God made man to be with woman and it really that's SIMPLE!!

  12. My question is if your homosexual why on earth would you wanna be a Christian or a Catholic or anything religious look at how Christians for example have treated non Christians such as non whites & gays themselves . It's so fucking stupid people & this goes for everyone you don't need to be religious to believe in God if you believe in God you believe in God but religion is just poisonous.

  13. I wish there was a “I’m disappointed” button. As a Christian I’m ashamed at how the LGBTQ community has been treated.

  14. two of the men in the last video said they wanted to be husbands and fathers.. which like you can be?? and not be straight?? and secondly, NEITHER OF THOSE TWO MEN ARE MARRIED TO WOMEN, LET ALONE HAVE CHILDREN. How is this camp really working out for ya, dude?

  15. "Look deeply into this mans eyes"
    "Look at his physical appearance"
    Sound like sonething you read in a lgbtq+ romance novel ???

  16. If god is all knowing and all powerful how does he create gay people then? Or even allow the thoughts for gay situations to begin with. Seems like god really got that one backwards….also side note, doing a bunch of gay shit at this retreat probably doesnt help your cause….just saying

  17. Gay conversion therapy makes me upset I don’t give a crap what you believe is right and what is wrong if someone is happy let them be happy and stop trying to change people gay conversion therapy is wrong and disgusting I’m 12 and I recently came out as lesbian and I over heard my parents talking about conversion therapy I can’t tell you how heartbroken I am I cry everyday knowing that my own parents can’t except me for something I didn’t choose and for people that think it is a choice let me ask you something when did you decide to be straight? Let that sink in I’m sorry that I don’t have feelings towards men I’m sorry that I am attracted to women and not men but it’s not like one morning I woke up and said “hey I want to be a lesbian” THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS and I’m so deeply sorry for some of you that can’t see that

  18. If you want to be Christian and gay start your own church but I don’t think you should push it on the other big religions that they have to except you.

  19. “You can’t be gay and Christian, BUT you can be homosexual and Christian.” Uh oh mr. psychology hasn’t heard of synonyms.

  20. Joel Super British Warrior Cong######## Plymouth Joel Super British Warrior Cong######## Plymouth If your God doesn’t make mistakes, then why does he make people gay? If your God loves everyone, then why does he want people to live their lives full of self hatered, to force themself to be with someone that they do not love, to fall into pits of mental illness and self harm that often lead to suicide, to be disowned by their families and left homeless, to fear for their lives, to be hurt and killed by others, and to be truly hated. This God you speak of makes mistakes, and commands his people to truly hate and psychologically abuse others. He commands people to despise themselves, and to not allow themselves to LOVE. If your God loves everyone, then why would he want gays to spend their life in misery, alienated by their families.

    I don’t know what church you go to, but let me tell you about my God. He loves everyone— and because he loves everyone, He wants everyone to be happy and love themselves. He wants everyone to treat those around them with respect and kindness. He wants us to spread love, not hatered. He commands us not to judge others— for he is the only true judge. He tells us that we are not better than anyone else, and should not act as if we are gods— for He is the only true lord. He does not command us to psychologically and physically abuse people, especially not children. He tells us that we are made in His image— and if we have been made in His image, how could we be sinners merely because of something that we have no control over.

    I’ve been to a church like the one you speak of— indeed, the church I grew up in sounds very much like it. That church took people I grew up with. It took happy and innocent children who were faithful to the lord, and it taught them that being gay was a sin. As those children grew up, they hated them self’s. They fell into depression and self harm. They isolated themselves. Many lost their families. Some committed suicide. They tried everything— but in the end, you can’t pray the gay away.

    Being gay is not all lust. Perhaps that’s what your church has taught you. Perhaps that’s what you’ve seen on TV. Perhaps those are the only gay people you have met— because, just like straight people, gay people can be focused only on lust.

    Let me tell you about some gay couples I know.

    One girl met another girl who was very very sick— her kidneys were failing. This girl was far too sick to have sex, and —if we’re being honest— looked quite poorly. However, the other girl fell in love with her. Not because of how she looked or how she performed sexually, but because of her mind and all the sweet things she would do. The girl got sicker and sicker, and eventually was put on the transplant list. Months past, and there was no organ for her. The other girl —mind you they still hadn’t had sex— got tested. Once she realized that they were a match, she donated a kidney to her girlfriend. She risked her life and signed up for life long consequences and limits, to save the girl she loved. The girl she had never had sex with. Does this sound like just lust to you?

    Another lesbian couple I know adopted three very poorly children from Africa. Some of them have severe learning disabilities. They have raised a family together. One of the works three jobs so she can pay for the children to go to an expensive private school that can give specialized help in terms of their learning disabilities. They are one of the kindest couples I’ve ever met. They are constantly bringing home made snacks to events, and they go to every single one of their kids events. They don’t do anything lustful in public— they don’t even kiss, meanwhile, there are tons of parents engaging in PDA. They never fight, and you can just see how in love they are. From surprising eachother with gifts, to helping carry each others bags. I’ve honest to god never seen a couple so in love after 20 years together.

    The truth is that, today, most Christians don’t follow every rule in the Bible— I’m sure you don’t.

    If you have clothing made of two materials, have eaten shellfish/rabbit/pork/etc, make jokes, or haven’t given away all but one of your shirts— then, technically, you’re disobeying the Bible.

    Indeed, the Bible says that it is okay to enslave CHILDREN. However, we as a society, have evolved to know that it’s clearly wrong to treat people —especially children— as objects.

    If you can strike two rules because you want shirts with multiple materials and you want more than one shirt, surely you can strike a rule that outlaws love. If you can strike a rule because you selfishly want certain things, then surely you can strike a rule that spreads hatred and leads thousands to commit suicide.

    Indeed, the passage that refers to gay sex has been translated by MANY phds in the field to actually mean man shall not lay with boy; man shall not lay with man is widely regarded by many to be a mistranslation, and that the true meaning is that pedophilia is a sin (which, of course, it is).

    Another common thought is that that passage was necessary for the time. Of course, if you’re trying to build up your civilization or you’ve had many men die off in war, it would be important for men and women to have sex as more children were needed to continue the society. It’s similar to passages about things like shellfish— there was probably someone in them that was making people ill. However, today shellfish are safe to consume— and the world is overflowing with far too many people, we no longer need to focus on reproducing… so, man shall not lay with man, no longer serves a purpose.

    Here’s some dumb stuff the Bible says:

    * Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
    * Ye shall not round the corners of your heads. Leviticus 19:27
    * The Bible strictly forbids eating rabbit, shellfish, pork, weasels, scavengers, reptiles, and owls.
    *You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
    * Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same. Luke 3:11 NIV
    *Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place. Ephesians 5:4 NIV

  21. Let's examine first the concept of being Christian. Hebrews 6:1-2 says that we should go on to perfection not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, faith toward God, baptisms (plural, you will note), and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

    So after repentance, accepting faith and being baptized, with the laying on of hands, the person supposedly receives the Spirit of Jesus and at that point, Jesus begins to live a spiritual life within the person. This is called conversion. That means that there is a totally new man, if only one lets the Spirit work within them. Therefore, and this is an important moment here, if Jesus were straight, the man becomes a straight man automatically. Conversion begins from within. These "conversion therapy" sessions are designed to transform a man from the outside in. It is doomed to failure, since one tries to change the veneer in hopes that the basic man changes.

    This all ignores something else rather fundamental: Most, if not all of the New Testament was forged. Theologians know this and cover it up by calling it "hagiography". Look it up. It means "forged". So the Roman Catholic Church gathered 2nd Century texts, stories and myths, sorted through them and came up with the New Testament. Matthew didn't write Matthew, Luke didn't write Luke, Mark didn't write Mark and John didn't write John. Certainly, everyone admits that II Peter was forged. At least 6 of "Apostle" Paul's epistles are know for certain to be forged. In fact, there are 40 gospels, but we only see 4. You should check out the Gospel of Thomas to see why that is. Lot's of crazy stories, like Jesus telling the Apostles that he would make a man out of Mary Magdeline. There is certainly even some doubt that Jesus even existed and valid history (the ones which were not forged) give us no objective proof he did.

    So with this background, the Christian faith is vain and prophecy is sure to fail. Of course, homosexual activity is proscribed, but that mostly comes from the Old Testament, which also told us eating oysters is an abomination. I guess you have to pick and choose and avoid the pork because it might have trichinosis. Oops, too late. Autopsies revealed that everyone but two orthodox Jews had it, but never mind.

    If you don't have the Bible as authority, just what authority do you have to declare that being actively gay is evil? You stand on exactly what?

    Would anyone like to answer this (without resorting to "I believe" and "I feel" or some variant thereof). Anyone who takes a stand is as the "Apostle" Paul said, "I am a fool" which pretty much describes this whole gay therapy thing. It's nice to have fantasies, but Geez….

  22. Literally all of these people that are anti-homosexual and act homophobic or "were once gay" all have a sort of eating disorder. You can tell just by looking at them that they have a mental health issue and it's called anxiety through repression. This is fucked up.

  23. These programs are not going to make gay people straight. You cannot in any way, change who people are. These practices, no matter how innocent they seem on the surface, are incredibly wrong, and these people i.e the participants of this program, should just be left alone. Period.

  24. Doubt anybody will see this but does anyone know if there are more documentaries are these “anti-gay camps” or even novels about them?

  25. I know a lot of straight men who are good people and not homophobic and yet they don't like the idea of gay men around them. I think, this has just got to do a lot with the ideas of masculinity and femininity that we as a society are so conditioned to. It's really sad. We are all suffering, the victims, the bullies everyone. Just that some are starting to show the signs and some are calling themselves "normal".

  26. So you can’t be gay and christian but you can be homosexual and Christian? I’ve already lost half of my brain cells and it’s only 26 seconds in to the video?

  27. I think it's great if an adult wants to go to a program for healing if they've suffered sexual abuse or neglect as a child I know a few people who feel they only started having homosexual feelings because of those experiences. I dont think children should be subjected to any conversion therapy…especially that to the extent the physicist experienced. That breaks my heart. I am a Christian and i dont feel it my place to judge. That is Gods place and it is considered a sin but Jesus also said "he who is without sin cast the first stone" no one is without sin and none of us have the right to judge. It is up to us to give love no matter our opinions because in the grand scheme of things our opinion is irrelevant. I pray for all of us sinners no matter the sin.

  28. Ok but which part of the Bible say that homosexuality is bad ? I would like to know since I never saw it…

  29. So you cant be gay and christian… what about the priests, cardinals, and bishops who have sexually abused little boys? And if they abuse little girls is that better in their eyes? So messed up…

  30. This is literally the gayest shit I’ve ever seen in my life. And I don’t mean that with negative connotations. I mean this is got to be the most homosexual thing I’ve ever seen. Like even gay porn is not as gay. Like wtf??? Just be gay men and live your lives. Fucking hell

  31. it's just amazing how everyone is so self righteous about their opinions on the complex issues of humanity…could it be that since you didn't create sexuality it's not of you to say what's right or wrong? That that is between you & your maker??

  32. Deluding yourself is extremely powerful people. I mean…shit, the majority of the human population deludes itself with bullshit religious nonsense.

  33. While doing theater routines at overnight camp, men are lined up facing each other and told to look at each other's "shape" and "into their hearts." I'm sorry, but are they fucking with us? Like is this a comedy of absurdities?

  34. Think about all the crazy sex that happens at night in these camps! ? Maby thats my sterotype hetro man belivs on gay men. But damn! What an opportunity to just fuck around with a bunch of gay guys in the woods! I belive thats what happens on these camps! ?

  35. How exactly are you defining being "gay" any differently from being a "homosexual"? What is your definition of "gay", exactly?

  36. He said you can be homosexual and Christian bit not gay and Christian I just stood up and spent an hour thinking about it

  37. OK Smid, it's "a shame-producing, negative message that strikes at the core of a human life". You're getting there, now all you gotta do is sloowwwly back away from the whole "Jesus died for your sins and non-believers burn in hell" setup. Give it another 20 years?

  38. I actually attended this “Journey Into Manhood” weekend years ago. These videos portray it accurately, but omit many of the more disturbing practices led by unskilled, unlicensed, non-professionals. One of the men I attended with ended up committing suicide. One of the founders – Dave Matheson – has now come out as gay and disavowed his harmful practices. Thankfully, I survived and – shocker – I’m still gay and have happily been with my partner for 5 years now. If you are reading this and considering conversion therapy, please know the people running these camps are deeply misguided and ashamed of who they are. You are beautiful just as you are, and your sexuality does NOT need any repairing!

  39. You cannot be Christian and have an ex wife. You can be a Christian and be divorced but you cannot be Christian with an ex wife.

  40. Well doing that isn't right to torture people into not being gay that's not cool at all. If people chose to try the other way like the therapeutic way like in the first part in this 3 part video and still can't help but be gay then be gay and go to a real therapist and work thru those thoughts and feelings to make it where u feel good about who u are and feel good about being gay. If one or both of my girls turn out to be gay I'm still going to love them for who they are not who they are attracted to cuz in the end they are still our children and are still the same person that they have been since they were born. #gayloveisthesamelove ?

  41. i am MORMON, one of the STRICTEST christian religions and im a LESBIAN. it’s not that hard, i just love jesus and help other latter day saints help understand me!

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